أهلا بك زائرنا الكريم في منتديات آرتين لتعليم اللغات (^_^)
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منتدى مغلق هذا الموضوع مغلق ، لا تستطيع تعديله أو إضافة الردود عليه  [ 15 مشاركة ]  الانتقال إلى صفحة 1, 2  التالي
الكاتب رسالة
  • عنوان المشاركة: Tomorrow never come
مرسل: الثلاثاء آذار 08, 2011 7:32 م 
آرتيني فعّال
آرتيني فعّال
صورة العضو الشخصية
اشترك في: 22 شباط 2008
المواضيع: 29
المشاركات: 1074
السنة: رابعة
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غير متصل
Be careful of what you wish for
And I keep  attracting more
Tomorrow is here now
Nothing left to restore

Once you're a child
Irreversible life in store
A pre-chosen roads, a predestined dreams
A perfect chaos keeps devour

I wish tomorrow never comes
A wish won't turn real
And if tomorrow ever comes
Smother me as it's  here

Play my dirge
Help me part this world
Nothing more to be wished
Nothing more to be loved

Burn me, shut me, kill my heart
Unlock those memories
Free them of this mind
Turn me into a mecha
A flesh and mind of no feelings or heart

Keep  me save
And only save is in your hands

_________________
التوقيع

Fill my fond heart with God alone, for he
Alone can rival, can succeed to thee.

How happy is the blameless vestal's lot!
The world forgetting, by the world forgot.
Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind!
Each pray'r accepted, and each wish resign'd;


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 يشاهد الملف الشخصي  
 
  • عنوان المشاركة: Tomorrow never come
مرسل: الأحد آب 14, 2011 1:57 م 
مشرف موسوعة الأدب الانجليزي
مشرف موسوعة الأدب الانجليزي
صورة العضو الشخصية
اشترك في: 17 كانون الأول 2007
المواضيع: 60
المشاركات: 1899
المكان: Britain
القسم: Literature, Film, and Theatre
السنة: MA
لا يوجد لدي مواضيع بعد

:: ذكر ::


غير متصل
 
Nawal8q

Dear Nawal, Your poem is very nice, but wait my critique on it asap. I am writing from damascus now and there is no internet connection in Hama at the moment. so, whenever I can access the internet from my home I will write a long reply on an important poem. :wink:

By the way, I will concentrate on the poeric mistakes more  :mrgreen:

*1

_________________
التوقيع
 
"We are the choices we have made."


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 يشاهد الملف الشخصي  
 
  • عنوان المشاركة: Tomorrow never come
مرسل: الاثنين آب 15, 2011 1:45 ص 
آرتيني فعّال
آرتيني فعّال
صورة العضو الشخصية
اشترك في: 22 شباط 2008
المواضيع: 29
المشاركات: 1074
السنة: رابعة
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غير متصل
 
Odysseus,  
Aye aye sir *Hi

By the way, Ramadan Kareem *1

_________________
التوقيع

Fill my fond heart with God alone, for he
Alone can rival, can succeed to thee.

How happy is the blameless vestal's lot!
The world forgetting, by the world forgot.
Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind!
Each pray'r accepted, and each wish resign'd;


أعلى .:. أسفل
 يشاهد الملف الشخصي  
 
  • عنوان المشاركة: Tomorrow never come
مرسل: الاثنين آب 15, 2011 9:42 م 
آرتيني مشارك
آرتيني مشارك
صورة العضو الشخصية
اشترك في: 11 آذار 2009
المواضيع: 8
المشاركات: 112
القسم: اللغة الإنكليزية
السنة: بس بلش الدوام رابعة
الاسم: نوار عبدالهادي
لا يوجد لدي مواضيع بعد

:: ذكر ::


غير متصل
 
Nawal8q,
that is a nice work
to tell you the truth i didn't know if you are welcoming "Tomorrow" or hoping its not coming

 
'cause if you read it fast you will miss the hidden meanings

_________________
التوقيع
Hoping the Best
But Expecting the Worst!


حمــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــص


أعلى .:. أسفل
 يشاهد الملف الشخصي  
 
  • عنوان المشاركة: Tomorrow never come
مرسل: الثلاثاء آب 16, 2011 8:46 م 
آرتيني فعّال
آرتيني فعّال
صورة العضو الشخصية
اشترك في: 22 شباط 2008
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المشاركات: 1074
السنة: رابعة
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غير متصل
 
Abo MAnAR,  
Thanks for commenting, but I didn't unsedrstand why the meaning of my poem is not so clear!!
I said  
اقتباس:
I wish tomorrow never comes

I don't think this was not so obvious!! *ممم
And also,
اقتباس:
And if tomorrow ever comes
Smother me as it's  here

That would also be another line that I wish tomorrow never comes.

_________________
التوقيع

Fill my fond heart with God alone, for he
Alone can rival, can succeed to thee.

How happy is the blameless vestal's lot!
The world forgetting, by the world forgot.
Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind!
Each pray'r accepted, and each wish resign'd;


أعلى .:. أسفل
 يشاهد الملف الشخصي  
 
  • عنوان المشاركة: Tomorrow never come
مرسل: الأربعاء آب 17, 2011 4:07 ص 
آرتيني مشارك
آرتيني مشارك
صورة العضو الشخصية
اشترك في: 11 آذار 2009
المواضيع: 8
المشاركات: 112
القسم: اللغة الإنكليزية
السنة: بس بلش الدوام رابعة
الاسم: نوار عبدالهادي
لا يوجد لدي مواضيع بعد

:: ذكر ::


غير متصل
:)  :)  :)

*ممم  *ممم  *ممم  *ممم

*1  *1  *1  *1  *1  *1

_________________
التوقيع
Hoping the Best
But Expecting the Worst!


حمــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــص


أعلى .:. أسفل
 يشاهد الملف الشخصي  
 
  • عنوان المشاركة: Tomorrow never come
مرسل: الخميس أيلول 22, 2011 6:13 م 
مشرف موسوعة الأدب الانجليزي
مشرف موسوعة الأدب الانجليزي
صورة العضو الشخصية
اشترك في: 17 كانون الأول 2007
المواضيع: 60
المشاركات: 1899
المكان: Britain
القسم: Literature, Film, and Theatre
السنة: MA
لا يوجد لدي مواضيع بعد

:: ذكر ::


غير متصل
 
Hi Nawal . . .   *1
As I promised, I am here to try to evaluate your piece of writing. Firstly, I want to apologize for being so late in fulfilling my promise. But you may forgive me if you know that I was very busy in the last three weeks.
I want to thank you because you pushed me to go back to reading again. I haven't read anything for decades!! Your poem motivated me to read certain papers I had purchased when I was in the first year in Tishreen University; these papers are about studying poetry.
My critique may be inconvenient to you, but believe me, this is for your benefit. I will give my view of your poem here frankly; so are you ready?? Here we go . . .


 
Let me start with the title; I think you were lucky in choosing this title for your poem. From the very beginning you gave the alarm and said to the readers that they are going to read a very sad poem; for a very gloomy picture was drawn by the personification: treating "tomorrow" as a human being who can understand demands and asking it never to come. That was very clever of you indeed. Anyway, when I read on I found that –as usual- you did NOT give importance to punctuation. I think that this is not the first time I mention this point. I insist on punctuation because it is the only guide that tells the reader how to read the poem. Moreover, punctuation greatly affects the meanings of the lines. Of course you know the famous sentence "A woman without her man is nothing"; this is just an example of how punctuation affects the meaning: for girls would punctuate at as "A woman! Without her, man is nothing", while males would say "A woman, without her man, is nothing"!! This is for fun of course. Back to our poem, I am going to write here what is written in my papers about lines. Unfortunately, neither the author nor the book's title is known to me. The author writes:

 
"Lines: End-Stopped and Run-On
Because poems are written in set lines, something about the way a line of poetry is constructed is bound to attract your attention. There are three features that you are likely to notice because they have an important effect upon poems: the way the line ends, the breaks, or pauses that occur within lines, and the very different rhythms that the words in a line can create.
A line can end in two ways: it can be end-stopped or run-on. In an end-stopped line the meaning is complete by the close, so it finishes with a punctuation mark; in run-on lines the meaning is left unfinished, so there is no punctuation at the end . . . . The question, then, that should be asked is: What effects are created by end-stopped and run-on lines?
End-Stopped lines usually sound firm and finished, because meanings are complete within them . . . . . By contrast, run-on lines create feelings of expectation. At the close of the line the meaning is not yet complete, so you might ask: what is going to happen next? What is the full meaning going to be? Where is the thought of the poem going? Hopkins's "God's Grandeur", which is about the presence of the glory of God in the World, starts with two firm end-stopped lines, and then offers the reader an enticing run-on:

 
The world is charged with the grandeur of God.
It will flame out, like shining from shook foil;
It gathers to a greatness, like the ooze of oil
Crushed.

 
Because the line ends half way through a simile, a great deal of expectation is aroused. The expectation is dramatically gratified by the word "Crushed"- easily the strongest word Hopkins has yet used in the poem. As a result of the expectation being suddenly fulfilled, the run-on line is far more emphatic than the two end-stopped ones."
Nawal I have another example of how run-on lines (or we call them also 'enjambed lines') should be used. Yeats says in his poem "The Wild Swans at Coole":
The trees are in their autumn beauty,
The woodland paths are dry,
Under the October twilight the water
Mirrors a still sky;
Upon the primming water among the stones
Are nine-and-fifty swans.

Look Nawal, the third and fifth lines are enjambed only because the meaning is not complete; the third line ends with a subject, so it should not be end-stopped because this line still needs a verb and object. The same applies to all poems!
The conclusion of all this is that all your lines are enjambed, and this is absolutely NOT correct. From now on you should give more attention to punctuation because it is as important as the other words in the poem.
Now I come to the form of your poem. Your poem consists of four quatrains, a quintet (a stanza with five lines) and a couplet. I think you were fortunate in composing your poem in this way; I will give the reason when I come to analyzing the quintet, but let me start with the first stanza.
It is very important to notice that you started your poem with a verb, and not any very, 'be', the most important of all verbs. This is important because such starting foreshadows what is coming in the poem. When we read on we discover that a lot of lines start with verbs, especially in the quintet. Structure is very important in analyzing poetry. The intensive use of 'imperatives' connotes an important message to the reader. In addition, the type of the verbs used in these imperatives tells the reader that the speaker is suffering a lot: burn, shut, kill …. Etc. However, you started your second line with "and". I think that placing "and" here is not appropriate. For when you use 'and' between two phrases or sentences the two sides before and after "and" should be equal, your first and second lines are not equal in terms of their grammatical components. i.e., the subject in the first line is 'you', while in the second line is 'I', and yet you used 'and' to connect them together!
However, what is good about this stanza is that you made the first, second, and fourth lines rhyme together. In fact, different factors make a poem differ from other types of writing; one of the most important of them is making lines rhyme together. In fact, I think that poetry without rhymes is not 'real poetry' (this is my own view). Some poets compose poetry without rhymes, but I think that what encourages readers to read poetry is the rhyming lines. "Rhymes tend to make a poem more musical and poetic. But not all rhymes are equal. A rhyme created by rhyming words that are separated by only one or two lines is much more audibly perceptible than a rhyme created by rhyming words that are farther apart. Perfect rhymes are more perceptible than off-rhymes (slant rhymes). The more perceptible a poem's rhymes are, the more musical it will seem ( Professor David Holdeman). Thus, your words (more – restore) contributed to the musicality of the stanza overall. We call them perfect rhymes because they share more than one sound ( o and r). NOT only rhyming your stanza made it beautiful, but also the use of other sound effects played a major part in making it seem poetic, like the consonantal abutment ( a term coined by professor Holdeman: when harsh consonants butt up against each other) in the fourth line: lefT To.
Moving now to the second stanza:
To tell you the truth, I couldn't comprehend this stanza very well. I FEEL that there is something wrong in the quatrain. You started it saying "once you're a child" so the reader expects that you are going to tell something about the childhood of the addressee, but when we read on we do not find anything about that childhood. What you did is telling things to 'describe' something of the past but you did not tell what happened when the addressee was a child. You should tell what happened because you started the quatrain with 'once'. Or you can avoid this style. In addition, some grammatical errors occur in this stanza. For example, "A pre-chosen roads, a predestined dreams": you used the article "a" with plural nouns and this is definitely wrong. Nevertheless, the mentioning of these terms is very clever of you. The importance of such usage lies in the connotations they carry with them. When I read the line for the first time I immediately remembered the tragedies of the past, Oedipus the King, for example. Such terms are usually connected with tragedies where the hero has nothing to do with his life, so he/she suffers not because of them but because of the fate. So these terms connote the meanings of sorrow, pain, suffering . . etc,. Here I find them appropriate for the subject of your poem. They help the poem a lot to create an atmosphere of desperation and hopelessness. The speaker blames fate, and this is very tragic indeed.
The third stanza has a problem in using the rhyme. Since you are composing the poem in the form of quatrains, and since you intend to rhyme it, then you should stick to the rules of rhyming quatrains. A rhymed quatrain should be in one of the following forms: ABCB, ABBA, ABAB, AABB, ABCA, AABA. If you notice, all forms say that the last line MUST rhyme with a previous line, whether the first, second or third line. What you did is that you made the first and third lines rhyme together and ignored the fourth. You may ignore rhyming the first and third lines but you cannot do that with the fourth line. Such rule does not come from nothing indeed. "When we hear one word rhyme with another, we usually experience pleasure in finding harmony between the two. Harmony creates a feeling of COMPLETENESS, the sense that something has been resolved or finished. This is particularly true when we expect a rhyme; our ears wait for the rhyming word and, when it comes, we enjoy feeling that something- a meaning, a line, a stanza- has been completed." Nawal you did it right in the two previous quatrains (unconsciously), making the last line rhyme with a previous one, but here in the third stanza you ignored this rule. Read it again and you will FEEL that more words should be said to complete the meaning. Even when you rhymed the first and third lines you used the same word, 'comes'. This is called "identical rhyme", it is NOT wrong but we cannot use identical rhymes anywhere. When poets employ identical rhymes they do so on purpose.
I do not find any problem in the next quatrain; it is one of the best stanzas in the poem as a whole. It conveys a great deal of sadness through the usage of certain words, like "dirge" – which is associated with death and funerals-and  "Nothing more" which also conveys a pessimistic mode. Overall, I find this stanza perfect and appropriate to the subject matter.
Now I come to the most important stanza in the poem, the quintet. I do NOT know why you shifted from quatrains in the previous stanzas to a quintet here, but when I was reading the poem and reached to this stanza I was shocked because I expected to read a quatrain. When you wrote this stanza in the form of a quintet you "disrupted the expectations of evenness, the comforts of balance that the quatrain gives." Such shifting forces the 'reader' to question what is the reason behind this shifting. Of course the answer lies in the denotations and connotations of the words in the quintet. What is shocking in the stanza is that the speaker seeks relief in destruction. The speaker thinks that burning/shutting/killing are the sole solution to the sadness she is experiencing. In addition, two of the most important things in human life are mentioned in this quintet: the heart and the mind. The using of these two words in the stanza reveals the conflict the speaker is suffering from. Nawal, you made the first and last lines rhyme together, using the same word, "heart"; so the stanza begins and ends with "this heart", as if everything is happening inside the speaker's 'heart'.
I find this stanza the most important because rhythm is clear in it. Rhythm is different from rhyme. Now the question is "why does rhythm matter? The answer is that it conveys the emotional weight of what is being said. For instance, "If you are sad, you experience sadness in two ways- you KNOW you are sad, and you FEEL you are sad. Now, consider how you could convey this to somebody else. If you say "I am sad", you will convey the knowledge of your sadness, but those words alone won't bring over the feeling. But the rhythms of poetry can. They can convey the fact of an emotion  and the feeling of that emotion." Now if we apply these words to your poem, I think that in this quintet you succeeded in conveying both the knowledge and the feeling of sadness and suffering. You conveyed the knowledge through wishing that the addressee unlocks the memories of the speaker (that's because the speaker suffers from those memories). Yet the most important thing here is the way you conveyed the feeling  of sadness and sufferance. You did so through different methods. First, from the unusual wishes: the speaker asks the addressee to burn her (let me suppose, for analytical purposes, that the speaker is a female and the addressee is a male), to shut and to kill her; she does so because she cannot stand pain anymore. Because she is very desperate she seeks salvation through her death.
Second, the structure of the sentences is very simple; a lot of imperatives are used. This tells the reader that the speaker cannot create long and complicated sentences because she cannot concentrate. The speaker is telling what is going inside her heart directly and that's why the sentences are simple. Finally, read the stanza again and count how many 'm's are used:

Burn me, shut me, kill my heart
Unlock those memories
Free them of this mind
Turn me into a mecha
A flesh and mind of no feelings or heart

The letter 'm' here is very important. It takes its importance from the fact that the sentences of the quintet are said spontaneously: directly from the heart. Now what does this letter connote? If you make a long pronunciation of 'm' you would pronounce it as 'mmmmm'; this sound, you know, refers to moaning. When someone is suffering from some kind of pain we can hear this sound getting out of their mouth. Moreover, even the word 'moan' starts with 'm', the word 'mourning' starts with 'm' as well. So this letter represents suffering, moaning, mourning, sadness, etc. Great job Nawal ! You may say all that was NOT in my intention when I composed the poem; I know that. But here I am analyzing what the poem says and not what you meant when you wrote the poem.  I believe in "The Death of the Author" theory so you and I are equal in analyzing the poem. The fact that YOU composed the poem does NOT give you the right to say that 'this understanding' is right or wrong! **

At last, the Couplet:
Couplets are usually used by poets to conclude poems. By placing a couplet at the end, a firmness and strength is added to the whole poem. After all, and after the conflicts the speaker undertakes throughout the whole poem, she finds ( the speaker) that the solution is being with the addressee because only that would make her safe. However, some grammatical mistakes are strongly present in this couplet. After "keep me" there shouldn't be a verb; so 'safe' should replace 'save' in the first line of the couplet. In addition, what is the subject of the verb "is" in the last line? And why you used 'save' after 'only' instead of a noun? I advise you to rewrite the couplet again so that it becomes grammatically more acceptable!
Conclusion
I want to say that the poem in general touches the soul, especially the quintet; because it reminds me with some lines written by Hardy in his poem "The Voice":
Woman much missed, how you call to me, call to me,
Saying that now you were not as you were
When you had changed from the one who was all to me,
But as at first, when our day was fair.
The same letter 'm' is used apparently here, and it has the same effect as in your poem. In terms of diction, you employed 'middle diction' throughout the poem; this made your poem earthier and closer to the hearts of the readers. You were very clever in choosing your words. I liked the words 'prechosen' and 'predestined' too much because I think they conveyed a great deal of sadness with them. The poem as a whole is well-composed, but still needs some refinements! You ARE talented Nawal. You are a great poetess.
For your benefit, and the benefit of all members of ART-EN, I have attached with this post two nice books about writing and analyzing poetry. You can download them from here:

عذراً, يجب أن تسجل من هنا لترى الرابط إذا كنت عضواً, فقط قم بتسجيل الدخول
عذراً, يجب أن تسجل من هنا لترى الرابط إذا كنت عضواً, فقط قم بتسجيل الدخول
Best Regards

Ali (Ala')  Al-Ibrahim *1

_________________
التوقيع
 
"We are the choices we have made."


أعلى .:. أسفل
 يشاهد الملف الشخصي  
 
  • عنوان المشاركة: Tomorrow never come
مرسل: الخميس أيلول 22, 2011 6:50 م 
آرتيني فعّال
آرتيني فعّال
صورة العضو الشخصية
اشترك في: 22 شباط 2008
المواضيع: 29
المشاركات: 1074
السنة: رابعة
لا يوجد لدي مواضيع بعد



غير متصل
 
Alla', I cannot find words to thank you, I really cannot!! I'm speechless
That was more than perfect, I felt like a real poet after I read this critical comment, and I'm soooooooo glad that finally someone told be PROFISHIONALLY what's wrong with my writings.
I will take each advice as a holy verse and work more on what you have said.
Since I have no internet connection at the moment -I'm on my phone- , I cannot give a very long reply, by I promise as soon as my Internet works I will be dealing with your comment line by line. I just couldnt read this without saying many a thank for you.

God bless YOU.
A million thank for YOU 


أعلى .:. أسفل
 يشاهد الملف الشخصي  
 
  • عنوان المشاركة: Tomorrow never come
مرسل: الخميس أيلول 22, 2011 10:43 م 
مشرف موسوعة الأدب الانجليزي
مشرف موسوعة الأدب الانجليزي
صورة العضو الشخصية
اشترك في: 17 كانون الأول 2007
المواضيع: 60
المشاركات: 1899
المكان: Britain
القسم: Literature, Film, and Theatre
السنة: MA
لا يوجد لدي مواضيع بعد

:: ذكر ::


غير متصل
 
Nawal8q
*1

Your words are enough for me. Thank you very much for your kindness!
I am sorry because I now realized that I have written some words wrongly, like 'here' instead of 'hear' and so on  :mrgreen:
That's because of the long reply  :P  It took me hours to write it  :P

I wish you all the best Nawal  *1

_________________
التوقيع
 
"We are the choices we have made."


أعلى .:. أسفل
 يشاهد الملف الشخصي  
 
  • عنوان المشاركة: Tomorrow never come
مرسل: الجمعة أيلول 23, 2011 2:48 ص 
المدير العام
المدير العام
اشترك في: 01 آذار 2007
المواضيع: 316
المشاركات: 4962
المكان: دوحة العرب
القسم: اللغة الانكليزية
السنة: متخرج
الاسم: فارس النائب
لا يوجد لدي مواضيع بعد

:: ذكر ::


غير متصل
 
It looks we have a real critic in this forum  :mrgreen: , also a real poet  :wink:
:mrgreen:

Glad to see that  *1

_________________
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أعلى .:. أسفل
 يشاهد الملف الشخصي  
 
منتدى مغلق هذا الموضوع مغلق ، لا تستطيع تعديله أو إضافة الردود عليه  [ 15 مشاركة ]  الانتقال إلى صفحة 1, 2  التالي

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